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Da-Risin-Smoke Trick Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Location: Spokane, WA area |
40. Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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There's always good and bad things about everything.
In ITG, it's almost impossible to play w/o speed mods (unless you're from Montana ).
Speed mods are a great way to learn.
Just don't abuse them because you're missing part of the difficulty.
It makes me use facepalm when I hear people they pass this song or whatever and they end up using 2x speedmod and stuff.
For example: Using 4x on Bag. _________________
Knock knock.
Who's there?
I eat mop.
I eat mop, who?
Haha, you eat your poo.
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HeavyD2 Trick Member

Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Location: Mishawaka, IN (that's where I play) |
41. Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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I think Bag is the ONLY song whose difficulty rating really stems from its difficulty to read on 1x. If this were taken into account for So Deep as well, it would be a 10 easily too. After all, So Deep is a hard 9 on 2x!
So yeah, I wouldn't count bag as a 10-footer passed unless it's done on 1x, but I would also count anything else passed with a speed mod. Hell, when I went back down to Light to try to get a AAA, I used 1.5x!! Not because I can't read it on 1x, but because the faster scrolling gives me a better idea of the exact millisecond to step. |
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__ Trick Member

Joined: 28 Mar 2002
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42. Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Da-RiSiN-sMoKe wrote: | There's always good and bad things about everything.
In ITG, it's almost impossible to play w/o speed mods (unless you're from Montana ).
Speed mods are a great way to learn.
Just don't abuse them because you're missing part of the difficulty.
It makes me use facepalm when I hear people they pass this song or whatever and they end up using 2x speedmod and stuff.
For example: Using 4x on Bag. |
1x Energizer or Pandemonium? No problem.
1x Bloodrush, Determinator, Euphoria, Tell, or Summer? Best of luck to ya.
There's ppl that can do it, but just because they can do it, doesn't mean it's the "standard". |
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pleasedon'thurtme Trick Member

Joined: 29 Jul 2008 Location: Earth |
43. Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I once made a B on Bag expert using triple speed on the pad, but I cannot pass it with the Playstation controller on normal speed (I can make at least A's on songs using the Playstation controller I can't even pass on the pad). It is ridiculous how much easier Bag is with a speed modifier -- I think even 1.5 speed allows me to pass it on the Playstation controller. Also, songs such as Anubis and Bend Your Mind on expert (In The Groove "expert", not the equivalent of heavy/expert on Dance Dance Revolution, which I believe is "hard") are currently impossible for me to pass without speed modifers just using the Playstation 3 controller (I have to use both thumbs on the four shape buttons because using the arrow pad causes some steps to misregister -- on a side note, reason I play In The Groove on the Playstation 3 is because the copy I ordered will not run on my Playstation 2 for some reason). Yes, I cannot pass Bend Your Mind expert on normal speed even using a Playstation 3 controller, but putting it even on 1.5 speed allows me to pass it with like a B or more. I really like the hands and gallops in that song, too Isn't Pluto or Pluto Relinquish on challenge sort of like Bag at least at some parts such as the beginning? _________________
Hate only bad actions, never people themselves because they bear the potential to become the good people you want them to be.
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ÊÉb sı Ê01ɹÇÉ¥s Trick Member

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Joined: 16 Jul 2007
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44. Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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Christ, why does everyone say Bag should be rated lower if the tempo weren't halved? It'd still be hard to do well on since all of the arrows would still be improperly quantized triplets! =p
(Then again, I realize I'm one of the few who think song difficulty should be based on how hard a song is to PA/FA, not how hard it is to pass...) |
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Yarni Trick Member

Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Location: Chicopee, MA |
45. Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Ninja N8 wrote: | Da-RiSiN-sMoKe wrote: | There's always good and bad things about everything.
In ITG, it's almost impossible to play w/o speed mods (unless you're from Montana ).
Speed mods are a great way to learn.
Just don't abuse them because you're missing part of the difficulty.
It makes me use facepalm when I hear people they pass this song or whatever and they end up using 2x speedmod and stuff.
For example: Using 4x on Bag. |
1x Energizer or Pandemonium? No problem.
1x Bloodrush, Determinator, Euphoria, Tell, or Summer? Best of luck to ya.
There's ppl that can do it, but just because they can do it, doesn't mean it's the "standard". |
Hey PAY ATTENTION. He said "In ITG, it's almost impossible to play w/o speed mods"
randompop101 wasn't even talking about ITG. While this thread is about speed mods, it's more specifically about speed mod usage in DANCE DANCE REVOLUTION. ITG isnt even a real game. It's a copy of Stepmania which is a copy of DDR. It's for fans of mashing arrows and just having fun with crazy edits. I use it for the latter, and do all my songs on it using 1x. (And don't give me some 13 foot garbage as an example, either. I've gotten more than half way on Pandamonium using 1x back in my prime, but I've always had the problem of crappy stamina. I could read it just fine.)
Anyhoo, I am definitely digging what Da-RiSiN-sMoKe was saying. If you play with speed mods and solo and the bar, well you look silly, and more power to you i guess. But if you pass song X like that, but CAN'T even pass that same song with NO mods... you can't really pass that song then. Don't argue with that. You CAN'T pass it.
For example: and yes, I'm going with the most over-used example in this thread... Saying you can pass 'bag' on heavy... but only if its on 5x solo bar-rape. To me, that sounds like you can't really pass bag then. You can pass a handicap fest. Try using 1x, which is slow enough to allow you to stand up straight on the pad without bar, since the arrows aren't blazing by. Learn to know the steps by listening to the music. This is a RHYTHM game after all. The only reason people manage to pass songs with speed mods they couldn't on 1x, is because it turns into [and be sure to use an exaggerated drunken yell for this nest part] "AH MAH GAH! JUST FIND A WAY TO HIT EACH SPEEDING ARROW CLUSTER THAT COMES ON THE SCREEN!!!! USE SOLO SO THEY ARE COLOR CODED TOO!!! MAKE SURE YOU DONT HAVE TO HAVE ANY SKILL WHATSOEVER TO PASS THIS SONG!!!!"
Learn to PLAY this game, not cheat your way through each round. There are like a hundred songs unplayable on mixes that have speed mods. Also there are ONI courses and tournaments. These are only a few of the basic reasons to use 1x.
POINT: Use speed mods if you want, but you cant really pass a song unless you can pass it in its original form. |
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Yarni Trick Member

Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Location: Chicopee, MA |
46. Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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ã©ã¤ã¹ wrote: | If playing on beatmania with hi-speed is okay so.. why not ddr? |
Now this may raise tons of controversy, but I've tested it MANY times on A LOT of Arcade and Home versions. It's even evident in Stepmania.
In IIDX, the Hi-Speed modifiers simply increase the scroll speed of the chart along with the distance between each note. The timing is still strict and exactly the same because you are MAKING the music in IIDX.
However, in DDR, this is only a dance game... it's unlike every other Bemani game. Along with increased scroll speed and arrow distance, speed mods in DDR increase the TIMING WINDOW in very small amounts. While the increase is, once again, very small, it's still enough to create unfair advantages by the time you hit, ohhhhh, say 3x and up. There is a reason why it's harder to AAA songs on 1x, and it's not because of how hard it is to read arrows. My pal BGS uses speed mods, but he can AAA songs on 1x like they are nothing! If you can ONLY AAA a song using speed mods, then it's not really a deserved AAA. It's unfair to compare those scores to people using 1x.
Take some time and really study it. The faster it is, the easier it is to notice. hit an arrow slightly offbeat on purpose, and it will shoot up to the set arrow markers and show the judgement. It's not that its too fast for the eye, I mean like CLEARLY it JUMPS up to the arrow markers. It's insanely easy to notice on something ridiculous like MAX 300 3x and above.
Now don't just yell at me for my findings without studiying it yourself. I can AAA things on 1.5x and 2x things that I can only SDG on 1x. It's not how i read things, it's the timing window. I only play 1x. |
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Yarni Trick Member

Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Location: Chicopee, MA |
47. Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Speed Mods |
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randompop101 wrote: | Hi, everyone I'm new in the forum, but I'm not new in DDR because I started playing since the 1st mix. It's been 10 years lol. I'm from Taiwan.
Ever since I started playing, I've never got around to modifying the songs in anyway while I played. That's how I play, no speed mods and no bars.
My level, hmm., is able to clear all 8-footers with a decent score on the first try,including some low to mid-end 9-footers on the first try.
Not until very recently did I find out the sheer number of people using speed mods. I'm just thinking, even for songs with complicated arrow patterns, it would be more beneficial for players to learn how to read arrows than to purposely space them out. I can understand people holding on to the bar due to the various physical conditions of different people, but if people aren't able to do well on all songs consistently without speed mods, they're probably not up to the level yet. What do you guys think? |
Hello randompop101, I think you and Da-RiSiN-sMoKe should be praised for your choice of game play in DDR. You are right. If you go through the game with speed mods, you never truly grasp how to REALLY play the game. You need to be able to sight-read any chart regardless of how slow it is. Gaining this skill, and playing new songs for the first time with no mods, is one of the must fun challenges in DDR. It goes back to DDRMAX2 when ONI mode first came out. There were 19 new songs only available in oni courses. These were only 1x no mods of course. Players who needed speed mods would have never been able to play them. More for us! =D
I just want you to know that I am behind you guys 100%! |
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PureBlue Trick Member


Joined: 06 Apr 2004 Location: The Candy Kingdom! |
48. Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: |
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People who complain about other people's playing preferences are hilarious. People can play however the fuck they want to, whether or not it's the "REAL way to play the game". I thought the "real way to play the game" was to step on arrows to a song whichever way is most comfortable to you. I guess I'm horribly wrong though. The real way to play is to whine about the way other people play DDR! Don't like how everyone "cheats" by using speed mods or using "3x SOLO bar-rape"? Then just quit the game if it pisses you off so much. Speed mods and the bar make the game easier, we know that already. We don't need to hear the same old crap over and over again. People have different playing styles, get over it.
Also:
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Suko Trick Member


Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Location: Lynnwood, WA |
49. Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Yarni wrote: |
However, in DDR, this is only a dance game... it's unlike every other Bemani game. Along with increased scroll speed and arrow distance, speed mods in DDR increase the TIMING WINDOW in very small amounts. While the increase is, once again, very small, it's still enough to create unfair advantages by the time you hit, ohhhhh, say 3x and up. There is a reason why it's harder to AAA songs on 1x, and it's not because of how hard it is to read arrows. My pal BGS uses speed mods, but he can AAA songs on 1x like they are nothing! If you can ONLY AAA a song using speed mods, then it's not really a deserved AAA. It's unfair to compare those scores to people using 1x. |
I can think of many players probably more veteran and skilled than you or I who would call BS on that. I have watched people stealth AAA songs at 1x and 8x. If what you say is true, then by stealthing a song at 8x, it'd be easier. Though I have no proof, (since I do not have the original DDR engine source code) I highly doubt this is true.
I believe this "perceived" increase in the timing window is simply you (or anyone's) ability to read, predict, and react to an arrow more accordingly because of the benefits of a speed mod. Nothing more, nothing less. _________________
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Yarni Trick Member

Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Location: Chicopee, MA |
50. Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: |
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PureBlue wrote: | People who complain about other people's playing preferences are hilarious. |
I am aware. I make jokes about crappy players all of the time. I get plenty of laughs. Plus, have you ever seen an A-Hole go on a crazy rant in public, but still make valid points? It's laugh out loud funny.
Quote: | I thought the "real way to play the game" was to step on arrows to a song whichever way is most comfortable to you. I guess I'm horribly wrong though. |
Pretty much, yeah.
Quote: | Then just quit the game if it pisses you off so much. |
I DID! Almost 2 years ago. Handicap frenzy ruined the game for me. I try playing on older machines, when they are available. Otherwise I stick to older home versions. Even so I rarely play anymore. I don't want to be associated with such utter crap.
Quote: | Speed mods and the bar make the game easier, we know that already. |
Exactly, I find it annoying when people take the easy way out and still think they are any good at all.
Quote: | People have different playing styles, get over it. |
No. I'll get over it when people who use speed mods never think they are good ever again... whoops looks liek that's not going to happen. I think I forgot to add that speed mods also increase the EGO window.
Quote: | Also:
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Funny, that's the picture I used to send crappy speed-dependent players back in the day. It seems to lose it's effectiveness after being used for so long. |
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Yarni Trick Member

Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Location: Chicopee, MA |
51. Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Suko wrote: | Yarni wrote: |
Speed mods blahblah TIMING WINDOW blahblah |
I can think of many players probably more veteran and skilled than you or I who would call BS on that. I have watched people stealth AAA songs at 1x and 8x. If what you say is true, then by stealthing a song at 8x, it'd be easier. Though I have no proof, (since I do not have the original DDR engine source code) I highly doubt this is true.
I believe this "perceived" increase in the timing window is simply you (or anyone's) ability to read, predict, and react to an arrow more accordingly because of the benefits of a speed mod. Nothing more, nothing less. |
Hmm, you may be right, but I really want people to look into this. Don't take a person who just AAA's everything. Get someone who gets B's and A's on everythign regularly to watch MAX 300 on 1x on one side of the screen while their side is 8x. 300x8 might be the drastic difference we need to finally take notice of this. Also, do be in my paradise the same way. Watch the differences in timing windows for a 63bpm song going over 500bpm. You'll be amazed with the results. Do it on 1x looking at 8x too!
if someone hits perfects 99% of the time, obviously you'll never get accurate results. Like i said, the increases are very small, but they do have an effect. |
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Suko Trick Member


Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Location: Lynnwood, WA |
52. Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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That is the most backwards f*cking logic I've ever heard. Basically you're telling me to have mediocre players analyze a song at different speed mod settings to tell me if the timing window is larger or not? There aren't many people that get under my skin, but this is certainly doing it. Name one other sport/profession/anything where someone would suggest to "go ask the guy who somewhat knows what he's doing". Seriously, I sure as hell hope you aren't a doctor or in charge of anyone's health. _________________
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PureBlue Trick Member


Joined: 06 Apr 2004 Location: The Candy Kingdom! |
53. Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Yarni wrote: |
No. I'll get over it when people who use speed mods never think they are good ever again... whoops looks liek that's not going to happen. I think I forgot to add that speed mods also increase the EGO window. |
How about you stop being a whiny bitch first and live with the fact that not everyone plays the same as you? It's also ironic that you're saying that using speed mods inflates someone's ego, when you're the one who is being a stuck up snob because OMG U PLAYZ TEH 1X NO BAR. Seriously, get a fucking life and stop harassing people who, believe it or not, are probably better than you at reading 1x. |
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MyChemicalRomance Trick Member


Joined: 06 Sep 2008 Location: Currently Lost.... |
54. Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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The rule I follow is this: Don't let yourself get to the point where you DEPEND on speed mods to pass a song. With the exception being Bag and any other insanely slow and dense song.
Like the other day at the arcade, I was playing and another regular comes in and asked if he could shadow, I said sure, then picked Cartoon heroes. He says "oh ya, I forgot you don't use speed mods." After a few seconds he says "Man, I don't know how you play without mods.".
So, I sometimes use 1.5x or 2x if the songs is below 145 bmp, but if I find that its getting harder for me to read denser stuff I quit the speed mods and do a little sight reading training. _________________
Knowledge is Power........Power Corrupts......Study Hard and be Evil! >:] |
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12 Trick Member

Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Location: Bay City, MI |
55. Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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If it's in the game it isn't cheating.
Speed mods and solo and whatever don't make it easier to step on arrows, it just makes the arrows easier to read.
Speed mods don't change the timing window. You may want to look up "burden of proof."
Also you pretty much look like an idiot playing DDR no matter what you do. |
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Yarni Trick Member

Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Location: Chicopee, MA |
56. Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: You smell like feet, sir. |
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PureBlue wrote: | Yarni wrote: |
No. I'll get over it when people who use speed mods never think they are good ever again... whoops looks liek that's not going to happen. I think I forgot to add that speed mods also increase the EGO window. |
How about you stop being a whiny bitch first and live with the fact that not everyone plays the same as you? It's also ironic that you're saying that using speed mods inflates someone's ego, when you're the one who is being a stuck up snob because OMG U PLAYZ TEH 1X NO BAR. Seriously, get a fucking life and stop harassing people who, believe it or not, are probably better than you at reading 1x. |
NEVAARRR!
I love bitching. That's how I function. That's how I come to terms with things. There are certain people who cope by slashing their wrists and listening to terrible music and write poetry in a graveyard... I just complain about everything. Certain people love me for it, and certain people loathe me for it.
You can even say the same things about speed mod usage. Some people accept it, and others will loathe you for it. If you like using speed mods go for it, if you like arguing with me and complaining like I do, come do it with me.
Ultimately, It's your choice. I just hate you for it.  |
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Yarni Trick Member

Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Location: Chicopee, MA |
57. Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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MyChemicalRomance wrote: | The rule I follow is this: Don't let yourself get to the point where you DEPEND on speed mods to pass a song. With the exception being Bag and any other insanely slow and dense song. |
I ALMOST agree with you.
The only thing I would change, is that even slow songs like bag should be played on 1x. That's the ONLY reason songs like that are even the LEAST bit challenging.
Or hell, even in a world filled with speed mods, those should be the only ones without the option to choose them. |
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PureBlue Trick Member


Joined: 06 Apr 2004 Location: The Candy Kingdom! |
58. Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Really? I never noticed.
Quote: | There are certain people who cope by slashing their wrists and listening to terrible music and write poetry in a graveyard... |
You mean people like yourself?
Quote: | Certain people love me for it, and certain people loathe me for it. |
The only people who love you for it are the legions of YouTube idiots who don't even play DDR but have the balls to say to people who, unlike you, actually have skill "LOL U SUK U USE TEH BAR/SPEED MODZ".
Quote: | You can even say the same things about speed mod usage. Some people accept it, and others will loathe you for it. |
And those people who loathe it are imbeciles who can kiss my ass.
Quote: | Ultimately, It's your choice. I just hate you for it.  |
You're right, it is my choice. Not yours, not Jimbob who AAA's bag 1x no bar. It's my choice. And if you want to hate me because I can make my own choices, fine. People like you make me want to put my head through a meat grinder. |
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Yarni Trick Member

Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Location: Chicopee, MA |
59. Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: PureBlue is a trolling douche. |
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PureBlue wrote: | The only people who love you for it are the legions of YouTube idiots who don't even play DDR but have the balls to say to people who, unlike you, actually have skill "LOL U SUK U USE TEH BAR/SPEED MODZ". |
My how ignorant of you. First of all, I hate YouTube. I only use it to communicate with my friend in Florida. We both play IIDX and want to see eachother play. 80% of Youtubers are just seeking attention. Kindof like you are. Why do you keep tracking all of my posts? Why is your signature CLEARLY a response to my rants? and how can I be an elitist without having any skill? Now sure, I quit years ago, before I AAA'd anything. I was in my SDG phase. but of course, it was all on 1x no bar, so it's more than you can speak for, cheap-ass. Yeah, it's in the game on purpose, for people who can't read 1x so well, so thanks for admitting you suck at the standard game and need to change everythign to accommodate your needs, baby.
And here is a good example of how much of a troll you are: My pal Rene loves me for doing nothing but complaining about speed mods. He is a pretty good DDR player. He gets all kinds of AAA's and SDGs on 1x, but he actually uses speed mods most of the time, and he loves my bitching. Its a great friendship.
Q:How can I be friends with someone who uses speed mods?
A: He isn't a trolling emo fag like you are.
Quote: | Quote: | You can even say the same things about speed mod usage. Some people accept it, and others will loathe you for it. |
And those people who loathe it are imbeciles who can kiss my ass | That's probably what you're used to. Impressing half wits by making the arrows move really fast to make every song you do look extra hard. Now that one person won't kiss your ass and praise you, you turn all emo about it.
Quote: |
Quote: | There are certain people who cope by slashing their wrists and listening to terrible music and write poetry in a graveyard... |
You mean people like yourself? |
Yarni wrote: | I love bitching. That's how I function. That's how I come to terms with things. There are certain people who cope by slashing their wrists and listening to terrible music and write poetry in a graveyard... I just complain about everything. |
I'm so glad you know how to read. Thanks for making yourself look like a dick.
PureBlue wrote: | People like you make me want to put my head through a meat grinder. |
Ohhh man I really REALLY wish you would stop chickening out and do it. |
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