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J. S. Mill Maniac Member


Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Location: New York, New York |
60. Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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#Infinity wrote: | I may change my opinion as I get better, but as irregular as they are, to me they really don't seem nearly as bad as stuff found in Visible Noise and Tension. |
Think about it like this. If you get 80% Fantastics in streams, getting say 80% fantastics in gallops might seem like who cares? But if you get 100% Fantastics in streams, and still get 80% fantastics in flams, you'll come to see the reason for the difficulty of the song.
I'm happy to reveal the algorithm for I-Score, but you are going to have to wait until the publication of the essay for that. _________________
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#Infinity Trick Member

Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Location: San Diego, CA |
61. Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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My point is that I believe it's not very difficult to score overall, but I can see how it is a bit difficult to completely FA. However, since the 48th gallops are almost equivalent to jumps, I don't find them to be as hard to track down as everyone says. Even so, there are tricks in other 10's, such as Tension and Visible Noise, that are a lot more difficult. Who wants to do a pattern like 2-46 in 16ths such as in Visible Noise? Or how about Tension's weird jump placement, high footspeed requirement, and two 32nd bursts all at 180 bpm? Even if Sweet World's gallops are pretty difficult when you're a super-expert at the game, the aforementioned obstacles are more than likely a problem for nearly everyone, not just the masters. _________________
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J. S. Mill Maniac Member


Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Location: New York, New York |
62. Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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If you play the Sicilian Najdorf for black below about 2400, you are totally dead. I mean you'll get blown off the board. Mated in just a few moves.
Does that mean, when we rate the hardest opening to play against with white in Chess, we shouldn't say the Sicilian Najdorf, because only grandmasters find it difficult to play against? _________________
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Emptyeye Trick Member


Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Location: Waterbury, CT |
63. Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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John Locke wrote: |
I'm happy to reveal the algorithm for I-Score, but you are going to have to wait until the publication of the essay for that. |
Any idea of an ETA for this? Also, I presume your other tournament formulas--WARP and the stats it uses, and the like--will be delved into further in the essay? _________________
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#Infinity Trick Member

Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Location: San Diego, CA |
64. Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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John Locke wrote: | If you play the Sicilian Najdorf for black below about 2400, you are totally dead. I mean you'll get blown off the board. Mated in just a few moves.
Does that mean, when we rate the hardest opening to play against with white in Chess, we shouldn't say the Sicilian Najdorf, because only grandmasters find it difficult to play against? |
I stated that Tension and Visible Noise's difficulties are hard for not just the masters, rather than simply only people who aren't that great at the game. They're harder for a lot more people, including the pros, than Sweet World would be in my opinion. Not everyone gets **'s and ***'s on 10's, so it should only make sense to include the people who are still working to get to that point. It's hard to move your feet fast enough to FA everything in Visible Noise, which has far fewer steps than Sweet World, making the Excellents you receive from hard parts such as the beginning more of a problem. _________________
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J. S. Mill Maniac Member


Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Location: New York, New York |
65. Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Correct. The Najdorf Sicilian is only hard to the grandmasters, while an opening like (say) the French is hard at all levels (although less hard once you are good at chess). Clearly, even though every single computer and grandmaster in history lists the Najdorf as the most difficult opening in Chess, they are all wrong and you're brilliant insight into this topic is decisive.
In addition, the hardest Kenjutsu technique is the first one (sure, Menkyo Kyaku might take fifty years to master, but only a few people have to struggle with that while EVERYONE has to spend a couple long weeks learning the two-step cut) the hardest piece of music to play is "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" (who really has to deal with Rachmaninoff anyhow?) and the hardest pitch in baseball to hit isn't the knuckleball (because 99% of the population can hit about .250 on it) but the plain fastball (since 99% of the population can't hit it at all) despite the fact that if you ask any baseball player alive he'll give the former. Thank you for the insight.
BTW: Yes, all my formula's will be in the essay. ETA is pretty much soon. _________________
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Tyrgannus Trick Member

Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Location: Not about to tell |
66. Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:07 am Post subject: |
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I see what you're saying, so don't think I'm starting a pointless argument.
Many pianists regard Franz Liszt and Frederic Chopin as composing the hardest pian pieces known to man. Among these incredibly high difficulty pieces are some very famous songs such as Hungarian Rhapsody No.2 (Liszt) and Revolutionary Etude in C minor (Chopin).
Before I go on, I was inspired to say this by your "Twinke Twinkle Little Star" comment, but I knew you weren't being serious and thus I am not truly responding to it.
Anyways, debate rages on what is the most difficult piece to play as debate may rage as to whether Clockwerk Genesis or Hardcore Symphony is harder to score. Some may have large, thin hands and thus execute stretchy sequences, such as the left hand part of La Campenalla, with great ease, while others see no difficulty in "stride jumping" and play Hungarian Rhapsody No.2 with seemingly no difficulty.
Unlike ITG however, there is no groovestats or archives of performance on given piano pieces. To further complicate the manner, A flashy and quite noticeably "Fantastic" doesn't appear when you hit a note absolutely perfectly., but unfortunately for piano players, rhythm isn't everything. Perfect dynamics is another, and certain difficult sequences may force you to play loudly while the music itself actually calls for pianisimo.
Judging the hardest songs and the best players is relatively easy for ITG. Categorizing the hardest piano compositions and the most accomplished pianists unfortunately can only reside an extremely educated opinions and argument as opposed to cold fact.
As an accomplished pianist, I believe that the hardest left hand part of all piano is for Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in C minor. I believe the stretchiest song of all piano is Franz Liszt's "La Campanalla", but if truth be told, I believe the hardest piano piece ever is indeed Hungarian Rhapsody No.2 due to the impressively large arsenal of skills it requires, namely every possible technique you could think of in piano, and at an unpleastantly lightning quick speed for the second half with extremel difficult dynamics for the first.
I am terribly sorry for this post, I rambled again. I only hope you see my point in al of this, and not see it as Piano 101. _________________
AA Bob wrote: | Summer is as much of a 12 as PSMO is a 9. |
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zappyalex Basic Member

Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Location: NE OHIO |
67. Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: |
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my favorite game is the easiest ten in my opinion |
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AA Bob Trick Member


Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Location: Alllll right! |
68. Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Tyrgannus wrote: | As an accomplished pianist, I believe that the hardest left hand part of all piano is for Chopin's Revolutionary Etude in C minor. I believe the stretchiest song of all piano is Franz Liszt's "La Campanalla", but if truth be told, I believe the hardest piano piece ever is indeed Hungarian Rhapsody No.2 due to the impressively large arsenal of skills it requires, namely every possible technique you could think of in piano, and at an unpleastantly lightning quick speed for the second half with extremel difficult dynamics for the first. |
Heh, really? I've been working on Hungarian Rhapsody for a couple of months, and while it's pretty difficult, I don't think I'd call it the hardest. Chopin's Ballade in g minor (especially the coda) is definitely up in the same difficulty level, if not a little higher. And then there are pieces that blow both of those away, like Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto no. 3. _________________
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Emptyeye wrote: | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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Tyrgannus Trick Member

Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Location: Not about to tell |
69. Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:40 am Post subject: |
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I guess I just suck at having my hand jump all over the place at blinding speeds, and well, Liszt loves to do that. I haven't looked at Rachmaninoff's Piano concerto No.3, but it probably is impossibly insane.
I guess I can't adapt to Liszt's style smoothly, yet I have an easier time doing Chopin who I have been told is "harder".
I guess the whole point of this piano thing was to show that "hard" is relative to your arsenal of skills in a given field. I suck at Liszt and am good at Chopin, does this make Chopin easy and Liszt hard? Good heavens no, but it is an interesting point.
Likewise, I score considerably higher on Queen of Light than even songs like Tribal Style or Wanna Do. That was the point I guess _________________
AA Bob wrote: | Summer is as much of a 12 as PSMO is a 9. |
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J. S. Mill Maniac Member


Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Location: New York, New York |
70. Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Tyrgannus wrote: | I guess the whole point of this piano thing was to show that "hard" is relative to your arsenal of skills in a given field. |
No, it isn't. Hard, FOR YOU, is relative to your skills. Hard, objectively is not.
I blow away anyone who plays the Najdorf because I calculate brilliantly. The hardest opening in chess to play against, FOR ME, is probably the Kahn. That doesn't change my conviction that the objectively hardest opening in chess is the Najdorf. _________________
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