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In The Groove coming to PCs and Macs
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Travelsonic
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100. PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To amend my reasoning for wanting to buy the PC version of In the Groove: I watched a video of people doing a marathon of songs, and watching them do "Bloodrush" on expert inspired me. E4.gif

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Nobody is inherently against MP3s (except maybe Microsoft and Sony - halo thar WMA and ATRAC), they're just against the illegal distribution of copyrighted materials.


[sorry to risk going offtopic]

This is definately true by all means, but for how long? It does seem like the public is being influenced in a way that makes them falsely believe that MP3s are the scum and there are no purposes for their existance except for crime when it is obvious it is not completely true. Read up on the way the RIAA is teaching people about piracy, and you will see what I mean...
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Cutriss
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101. PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travelsonic wrote:
This is definately true by all means, but for how long? It does seem like the public is being influenced in a way that makes them falsely believe that MP3s are the scum and there are no purposes for their existance except for crime when it is obvious it is not completely true. Read up on the way the RIAA is teaching people about piracy, and you will see what I mean...
Yes, but nobody is preaching against stepfiles in general. Only *copyrighted* stepfiles. There is a positively *huge* amount of user-created content for Stepmania, and nobody has any problem with the circulation of that stuff since it's all public domain or near enough to it.

Konami and Roxor aren't waging any sort of propaganda war against stepfiles, to my knowledge.
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sherl0k
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102. PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutriss wrote:
Konami and Roxor aren't waging any sort of propaganda war against stepfiles, to my knowledge.


No but DDR:UK is pretty quick to bitch if someone else hosts their simfiles... they shot me an email claiming of "copyright infringement" when I had their bumpers on my campus webspace back in the day. Apparantly the work they did on them they held the copyrights to? E19.gif
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CHUCK BASS
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103. PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone has already said this, flame me all you want but god damn.

This could be worth buying, because I have not downloaded one accurate marthon yet. Sure you can come barely close with Driven, but its still not helping me learn it at all.

The actual game being released for PC is a lot better than just some attempt at the actual game. No?

By the way, for all those people who downloaded Freeze Rolls and it crashed, it could be FIXED.

This is assuming ITG2 stuff is included....

Just damn 100% accurate stuff.

...Plus I can't find ITG1 simfiles anymore.

Dont get on me for saying that either.
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Joel Stud?!
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104. PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ I've been looking for ITG 1 simfiles for a while, and without downloading them with videos, and taking about ten days to do so cause there's not decent seeding, you don't get them....

And let me reiterate... Roxor's games won't get any better if you don't support them. So get off your lazy butt's, get a job, and fork out the money for it. If you have it for PS2, then don't... if you don't play at home, then don't... but seriously, we all know you cna illegally access the same game, so stop going on about how that's the better option. Use this thread to discuss the benefits of ITG PC, what you expect from it, and what you want from it.

To go along with that, I just want edit mode and better loading times... regardless of how many people exxagerate them, they still get on my nerves.
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ViciousCB
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105. PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHO THE frick CARES!!! SERIOUSLY!!! WHY DOES IT MATTER?!?! IT'S A GODDAMN GAME!!
What happened with Roxor and Konami is what happens between any other business everyday! They take a product and make it better by adding more features and slap their name on it. Oh wait, that's nothing new, now is it?
If you want to make something like ITG into a big buttocks deal because it's so similar to DDR, then your fighting a pointless battle in a series of other related battles. Wal-mart does it by making their products in China. See anyone caring?

The point is, if you don't like ITG. Then shut the frick up and let everyone else who does have fun with it. Vise-versa for you DDR fanboys.

I hope you all realize you are having a huge internet contreversy about a weird arcade game? That's just rediculous. lolz babies...
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Resident Lune
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106. PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViciousCB wrote:
I hope you all realize you are having a huge internet contreversy about a weird arcade game? That's just rediculous. lolz babies...


Exactly! It's a rediculobous contraryversy! lollerskates.

... so, anyway. Here's something that I have wondered. RoXoR staff have a fair amount of Stepmania staff in it. Everyone is saying that RoXoR does not condone licensed simfiles, right? Well ... what did those RoXoR members who were a part of Stepmania think about it when they created Stepmania in the first place? I mean, even a child can understand that if you make a Dance Dance Revolution computer simulator, illegal simfiles of the actual songs are going to pour in from simfile creators.

Of course, now that these SM staffers are a part of RoXoR, and are seeing what exactly happens when a DDR simulator exists (see: DLing their hard-worked on music instead of buying games or going to arcades), they suddenly find themselves in the hole that they dug around Konami, in terms of trying to stem the tide of illegal simfiles.

Though I am probably not understanding this situation fully. Feel free to correct me, anyone.
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PedanticOmbudsman
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107. PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Resident Lune wrote:
Well ... what did those RoXoR members who were a part of Stepmania think about it when they created Stepmania in the first place? I mean, even a child can understand that if you make a Dance Dance Revolution computer simulator, illegal simfiles of the actual songs are going to pour in from simfile creators.


So? The makers of a tool aren't responsible for what others do with that tool.

You don't see idiots suing gun manufacturers whenever some other idiot shoots somebody -- okay, you do, but they're idiots.

If you have a problem with how someone is using a particular technology, you should blame the person doing it, not the creators of the technology.

This is like the idiots and whores who try to shut down filesharing networks because they have illegal content on them, ignoring the fact that they can be used for legal content as well. It doesn't matter if there's more illegal content than legal, because if a technology has even one clear legitimate purpose or application (regardless of whether it can also be used for unwholesome or "harmful" purposes), it's legitimate technology that ought to exist. If you have a problem with how some might use or misuse it, take it up with them, not the creators of the technology.


Quote:
RoXoR ... trying to stem the tide of illegal simfiles.


I haven't really seen even a hint of RoXoR trying to stem any tide of anything. Of course, from a business perspective RoXoR can't officially endorse or support third-party simfile recreations of their game, but they've never actually done anything about the simfiles that they know are out there. They've been extremely gracious about it. They even held an Edits contest, released a fan-made Edits pack, and advertise the Edits feature of their arcade machines despite the fact that so far Edits can only be created by using "illegal simfiles". Personally, I consider this to be the highest possible form of corporate grace, respectability, and responsibility.

As a further example of model behavior, they're addressing the "problem" of "illegal simfiles" not by harassing or taking corrective action against their fans (as most companies would do) but by producing a PC version so that those who want simfiles will have a legal outlet for getting them.

For once, a company is actually going to treat you like a human, with respect. Don't throw it back in their faces.

RoXoR's attitude is what all companies' attitudes should be about "copyright infringement": officially against it for business reasons, but without being assholes/jerks about it by blowing small problems out of proportion, persecuting their fans, and engendering ill will (a.k.a. pissing people off) among many based on the actions of a few. Unfortunately I can think of very few companies that are this enlightened; treating your fans like enemies and potential criminals is still the norm among most companies, singers, and other copyright-holders.
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sherl0k
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108. PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the current batch of simfiles can be made because they're not official, they're "fan-made" creations. Therefore since they're not 100% accurate, they're not the same as the real ones and therefore they can't be taken down. The music though I'm a bit more sketchy on... they were recorded from the game via line-out I'm assuming, but does that make them the same as what's in the game itself?

Either that, or RoXoR truly doesn't care. That's what I'm banking on.

I'm just wondering that when this comes out, they'll want to stop distribution of ITG1 simfiles - which are still being passed around.
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PedanticOmbudsman
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109. PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sherl0k wrote:
I believe the current batch of simfiles can be made because they're not official, they're "fan-made" creations. ... Either that, or RoXoR truly doesn't care. That's what I'm banking on.


Not all the ITG simfiles floating around are fan-made recreations; also in wide circulation are the exact official ITG1 simfiles copied straight from the PS2 disc. On the most well-known site for ITG2 simfile downloads, the simfiles for the songs that were included on ITG1 PS2 (Liquid Moon, Funk Factory, etc) had their steps ripped from the PS2 disc. And since certain persons appear to have figured out how to read/access/modify the contents of an ITG2 system's hard drive, it probably won't be long until large numbers of exact official ITG2 simfiles are floating around also.

I'm sure the RoXoR aren't happy about all the simfiles floating around, but they don't really have any reason to do anything about it. In the real world, piracy doesn't actually cost companies the large amounts of money that the big software companies claim it does -- not anywhere close. Sometimes, problems are small enough that it'd be cheaper to just ignore it than to do anything about it. Have you ever heard the phrase "the cure is worse than the disease"? Sometimes that's the case. Respect is an important thing for companies; it's probably better in the long run to ignore a few minor transgressions of the law and keep the respect of your fans than to alienate your fans by becoming a bunch of draconian copyright Nazis about comparatively trivial legal issues.

RoXoR's cool; I don't think you have to worry about them busting your favorite simfile sites, even if they don't like the existence of those sites. The vast majority of In The Groove players have no idea what Stepmania is or even what simfiles are, so simfile sites will never be a significant threat to RoXoR, and thus I doubt they'll ever see a need to press the issue. But please show them your gratitude for their mature and sophisticated attitude by actually buying their products.
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Synaesthesia
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110. PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm in a low percentage here, but having the simfiles doesn't stop me from getting the game. I have the sims mostly so I can familiarize myself with the charts and usually end up saying "LOL I won't be doing *that* any time soon." You can bet I'll still go preorder ITG2 (especially if they have T-shirts; note for Roxor: the best way to get my money is include a free T-shirt. Free T-shirt means I'm totally there.). I've only met one person who had the mentality of "I have SM so I won't buy any video games or even go to the arcade;" interestingly enough, she was not good at DDR nor SM. I know a few people who have SM, don't buy home versions, but play ITG to death in the arcades. It seems to me the first kind of person is the one that "hurts" companies, but as that seems to clearly not be the prevailing attitude (at least in my experience), I believe that simfile distribution is not this evil monster that some make it out to be.
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Joel Stud?!
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111. PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But the problem is that people are saying "Why buy ITG PC if you can have the same thing on SM..." These people may have bought ITG PS2, because as we all know, playing arrow-smash on a computer is usually not the most convienient thing, But if your forced to result to that anyways due to lack of console, why not just illegally hoarde simfiles and put NO money to the company. No one's saying you should buy this if you have ITG PS2, though still, it's helping out a company that needs cash.
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PedanticOmbudsman
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112. PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind that if you go to a typical ITG or DDR arcade and ask the players there, many won't even have a clue what Stepmania is, many will have a general idea, a few may have tried it out, a few might be regular players, but not many will actually have a full set of ITG simfiles. We "internet people" are a minority. Many people enjoy playing the games but see no need to hang around on websites afterward to talk about what they just did, and thus they don't know many of the things we know and take for granted. The real reason that simfile downloads aren't a real problem is that only a small number of people out of the total body of DDR/ITG players actually know what simfiles are, much less have the knowledge and initiative to go out & download a full set. Even though we take it as a given here on the internets, our more reality-oriented arcade brethren don't even know that the ITG cabinet contains a Linux computer running a modified version of Stepmania unless we tell them. I know plenty of people who'd buy gladly buy ITG for PC and wouldn't want to, or be able to, go through all the trouble we simfile collectors go through.
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J. S. Mill
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113. PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember though that ITG caters to more elite players, and therefore a higher percentage will be familiar with aides like Stepmania.
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DX Manaic
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114. PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synaesthesia wrote:
Maybe I'm in a low percentage here, but having the simfiles doesn't stop me from getting the game. I have the sims mostly so I can familiarize myself with the charts and usually end up saying "LOL I won't be doing *that* any time soon." You can bet I'll still go preorder ITG2

Isn't that because the game is not on the same platform as the one you have the simfiles on?
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Synaesthesia
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115. PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could reconfigure the setup I have such that I just had my laptop+pad instead of a PS2+pad, but the garage is a rather dirty environment for my computer to spend time in. However, the batch of sims I have is far from perfect, and $40 to buy the "correct" files with all the bells and whistles (and a free T-shirt biggrin.gif ) is worth it to me.
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Rajjab
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116. PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synaesthesia wrote:
I could reconfigure the setup I have such that I just had my laptop+pad instead of a PS2+pad, but the garage is a rather dirty environment for my computer to spend time in. However, the batch of sims I have is far from perfect, and $40 to buy the "correct" files with all the bells and whistles (and a free T-shirt biggrin.gif ) is worth it to me.


i would agree. so far for stepmania i have downloaded many of the ITG2 marathons, and only nightmare and inside out would run without flaws. even some stepcharts are ranged from a little different, to really different.

and i'm all in for the free t-shirt E4.gif
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PedanticOmbudsman
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117. PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A t-shirt would be nice, especially if it's different from the PS2 t-shirt, which i have two of already even though I hate t-shirts, especially white ones.

I doubt they'll price it at $40; ITG1 is so late in its life cycle, and ITG2 home versions probably aren't too far over the horizon; ITG1 PC really shouldn't be considered a full-price product. If I were to guess I'd say it'll be considered a bargain-type product priced at $20 or so, just a way to extract a little more money from ITG1 in the months before the ITG2 home versions come out.
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Synaesthesia
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118. PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I was referring to buying the ITG2 "sims" on the PS2. I bought ITG1 before I had SM, and I've never really felt the need to have ITG1 on my computer. Yeah, an ITG2 shirt with some kind of cleverness would be cool; I'd get ITG Freak's one that has the arrows on Flip and says "Bend Your Mind," but everyone who sees me knows I'm laughably bad at reading Flip. :\
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Dansumthing
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119. PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a PS2, but I'd buy this for Xbox.
Playing on the TV is always going to beat a PC screen, and I don't have enough space in my computer room for a dance pad.
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