Forums FAQForums FAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Login to check your private messagesLogin to check your private messages   LoginLogin 

Update: Konami vs. Roxor (and RedOctane and Mad Catz)
Goto page Previous  1, 2  
This topic is locked you cannot edit posts or make replies    DDR Freak Forum Index -> In the Groove
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
'Ivan
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Thailand
20. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtwieg wrote:
how can konami claim a patent on the entire dancing game genre?? That's like patenting rpg's or first person shooters, which is ridiculous.

*slaps forehead* Darn it! Interactive storybooks to spend hundreds of hours on was my idea! But I never thought of getting a patent!

EDIT: "This shows great power for step dance practice." laugh.gif
_________________

If you end up joining, put "ThreeLeafIvy" in the referrer box, will ya? E1.gif
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Thomas Hobbes
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Location: San Francisco // NorCal
21. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're smart for doing such though. E10.gif

The Andamiro case was settled out of court. I'm guessing that the RoXoR, RedOctane and Mad Catz will most likely be settled out of court too.

Does RoXoR and RedOctane even pay royalties?
_________________
"I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark."

| Pics | Play-Asia |
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Send email Visit posters website AOL Instant Messenger
Wolfman Jake
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 13 Sep 2002
22. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

St00pidBaka // BluR wrote:
They're smart for doing such though. E10.gif

The Andamiro case was settled out of court. I'm guessing that the RoXoR, RedOctane and Mad Catz will most likely be settled out of court too.

Does RoXoR and RedOctane even pay royalties?


If you think about it for a minute, you will realize that the answer is most obviously NO E15.gif The rest of what you said is smart money, though.
_________________
Wolfman Jake
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Xbox Live Gamertag
Thomas Hobbes
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Location: San Francisco // NorCal
23. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is not smart for Konami?

They capitalized on a niche that they thought would prove to be successful and it has. C'mon, look at this site? Look at In The Groove. ITG was founded from hardcore DDR players who wanted something new and wanted a challenge.

Their patent shows that they are dedicated to their niche and want it to prove to be successful, as it has. That's why I think Konami is in the right for protecting their intellectual rights and their market, as they should be. Konami is a company. They are in it to provide their customers/clients/consumers a product or service while earning them a buck or two.
_________________
"I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark."

| Pics | Play-Asia |
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Send email Visit posters website AOL Instant Messenger
diddrstrait
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2004
24. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you got that last sentence backwards, Baka.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
Wolfman Jake
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 13 Sep 2002
25. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baka, I was stating that RedOctane and Roxor of course do not pay Konami royalties for use of Konami's patented dance game formula. That's why Konami is mad at them E13.gif I do agree with the rest of what you said, though. Konami is in the right for trying to defend their intellectual property, and it is the smart thing for them to do.
_________________
Wolfman Jake
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Xbox Live Gamertag
Thomas Hobbes
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Location: San Francisco // NorCal
26. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but don't get me wrong. I love ITG and love how it's like by the hardcore gamers sort of for the hardcore gamers. It's really great and all, but yeah their rights simply do need to be protected and held.

Haha, I've had so many arguments with my friends about this. xD
_________________
"I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark."

| Pics | Play-Asia |
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Send email Visit posters website AOL Instant Messenger
ChessWhiz
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Location: Corvallis, OR
27. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is amazing, although not very surprising. Let's just hope we don't have to send our ITG1 CS copies to Konami for destruction. E15.gif

...and having ITG2 CS would be nice eventually... but that seems to be part of what Konami is trying to stop.
_________________
This sentence no verb.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website
El Mullet
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 24 Jan 2002
28. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtwieg wrote:
how can konami claim a patent on the entire dancing game genre?? That's like patenting rpg's or first person shooters, which is ridiculous.


I believe that Konami's patent holds on games that involve "stepping on scrolling targets that travel vertically from the bottom of the screen to the top in time to music". No one is stopping someone from creating ANOTHER type of dance game that involves different concepts and a different type of control scheme to accomodate it.

However, there doesn't seem to be much originality in this regard, as virtually all dance games out there follow DDR's "patented formula". PIU, ITG, MC Grooves, Techno Motion, etc, etc, etc. You'd think that someone would have come up with a DIFFERENT dance game by now... (And I'm sure there's probably some obscure title floating around out there somewhere that IS different, so I'll fully acknowledge it if it does exist.)
_________________
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Send email Xbox Live Gamertag
Wolfman Jake
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 13 Sep 2002
29. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChessWhiz wrote:
This is amazing, although not very surprising. Let's just hope we don't have to send our ITG1 CS copies to Konami for destruction. E15.gif

...and having ITG2 CS would be nice eventually... but that seems to be part of what Konami is trying to stop.


Hello gentlemen!! All your ITG PS2 are belong to us! They are on the way to destruction!

No, Konami couldn't possibly take any copies of ITG CS that consumers own away. IF all of this ends up bringing about the end of ITG CS, and all unsold copies are pulled from the shelves, those of us who have already purchased the game will simply have a great videogame collector's item in our paws the likes of Tengen's version of Tetris for the NES biggrin.gif
_________________
Wolfman Jake
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Xbox Live Gamertag
Loogaroo
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
30. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess Konami realized that RoXoR pwned them by being incorporated by Andamiro, so they've taken the feces-throwing approach.

Slick move, guys. Now there's zero chance you'll ever see another dollar from me.
_________________
The Game Show Rules Wiki
Before Gambit was an X-Man, it was hosted by Wink Martindale.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website AOL Instant Messenger
Wolfman Jake
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 13 Sep 2002
31. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loogaroo wrote:
I guess Konami realized that RoXoR pwned them by being incorporated by Andamiro, so they've taken the feces-throwing approach.


Andamiro didn't incorporate Roxor. Plus, Roxor's business partnership with Andamiro for ITG2 is irrelevant to the matter at hand. Next...

Loogaroo wrote:
Slick move, guys. Now there's zero chance you'll ever see another dollar from me.


I'm sure Konami is losing sleep over that one. erm.gif
_________________
Wolfman Jake
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Xbox Live Gamertag
Thomas Hobbes
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Location: San Francisco // NorCal
32. PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at Konami's stock to see if there's any change in their stock whatsoever.

Apparently, only Konami Corporate Advertisements is listed in the US Market on the NYSE. It currently went up. All the other symbols/relative matches I found for Konami had no data from Yahoo Finance or they were two months old!
_________________
"I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark."

| Pics | Play-Asia |
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Send email Visit posters website AOL Instant Messenger
Char
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 30 Apr 2004
33. PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtwieg wrote:
how can konami claim a patent on the entire dancing game genre?? That's like patenting rpg's or first person shooters, which is ridiculous.


Because software patents are a wonderful thing. Their scope far outlasts their uses in most cases, given the speed at which the computing industry moves, and thus they help to stifle an industry built up from co-operation and the like. This is partially why Europe recently rules against software patents.

I don't deny that Konami own the patents to this, that and the other, but that doesn't mean that simply waving a patent in my face, as some have done, will make me "see the light" and declare Konami to be In The Right because your interpretation of the law says they are.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message
Loogaroo
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
34. PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfman Jake wrote:
Loogaroo wrote:
Slick move, guys. Now there's zero chance you'll ever see another dollar from me.


I'm sure Konami is losing sleep over that one. erm.gif


Smarmy remarks aside, I see no point giving money to a company that sues all its competitors into oblivion while putting out a mediocre product. Have you played DDR Extreme USA at all? I mean, have you played it at all? And this is the company that's going to have exclusive dominion over all arrow-smash games for all eternity? If anything, Konami should have their patents stripped from them due to gross incompetence.
_________________
The Game Show Rules Wiki
Before Gambit was an X-Man, it was hosted by Wink Martindale.
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website AOL Instant Messenger
Thomas Hobbes
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Location: San Francisco // NorCal
35. PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleh, I just think that they're doing the right thing. They're sueing to protect their intellectual rights and patents. They're doing the right thing and I fully support them.

I am also going to support them by spending my money on their products. They have several lines of games that I enjoy besides DDR.

Oh, and I have played DDR Extreme. It's subpar, but I still find it satisfying. It's still good arrow smashing fun.

I just think that if there is currently such a great market for dance, music and rhythm games, why hasn't anyone tried anything new? Why can't you deviate from the norm, wrack up some creativity and bust out with some innovation to make a game that satisfies the genre of music and rhythm without the whole arrow smashing business? Then you wouldn't have a lawsuit and it'd probably be good fun. C'mon, just look at Donkey Konga, Frequency/Amplitude, etcetera!
_________________
"I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark."

| Pics | Play-Asia |
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Send email Visit posters website AOL Instant Messenger
Wolfman Jake
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 13 Sep 2002
36. PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loogaroo wrote:
Smarmy remarks aside, I see no point giving money to a company that sues all its competitors into oblivion while putting out a mediocre product. Have you played DDR Extreme USA at all? I mean, have you played it at all? And this is the company that's going to have exclusive dominion over all arrow-smash games for all eternity? If anything, Konami should have their patents stripped from them due to gross incompetence.


Yep, I've played DDR EXTREME US, a lot. Mostly great choices for US licenses again. A good selection of KO's. Some un-needed repeasts and duds for licenses, but I have yet to see a dancing game without such. Dance play settings? I can manage to step fairly accurately and I don't suffer from size 12 feet, so the impact on my ability to FC songs for those AA*'s is quite low. DDR EX US has entertained me well. UM2 even better. And now we have EX 2 US (which is looking to be nothing short of awesome, and seems to correct every complaint brought against EX US) and UM3 on the way. Konami still seems to be doing a good job at churning out dancing games that I find fun to play and worth my time and money. The only person who loses if you boycott Konami, Loogaroo, is YOU, especially IF your fears were founded and Konami became "the only dance game makers in town," thus ITG is somehow whisked out of existence (more on that nonesense below). You'd end up with absolutely no dance game to play whatsoever. So, while you're pouting over the fact that your rosey view of the world doesn't match up with reality in the slightest, I'll be stomping away to Get Busy on DDR EX2, or having a blast with some excellent new IIDX crossovers in UM3, or perhaps exploring the latest incarnation of Dracula's Castle in Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow.

Plus, you think that Roxor and RedOctane and Mad Catz will just be "sued into oblivion?" Yeah, considering that's exactly what happened when Konami went after Andamiro...oh wait, that's right, that DIDN'T happen to Andamiro. At all. The WORST that will likely come out of this entire situation is that Roxor/RedOctane and Mad Catz will end up paying royalties to develop and distribute their own respective dance game brands, just like Andamiro currently does in the US. Honestly, if you stopped to really THINK the situation through before whipping yourself up into a total panic about some videogame that you place way too much importance around, you'd see the larger picture for Konami and yourself.
_________________
Wolfman Jake
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Xbox Live Gamertag
Uiru
Contributor
Contributor


Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Location: the floating castle of Newfoundland
37. PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If all they wanted was royalties from Mad Catz... why bother? That game was trash, wasn't it?
~Uiru
_________________
Uiru's Stepfiles - Uiru vs ITG - Bemani on Wii?

"I just think everytime [Uiru] touches a keyboard, something epic comes out." ~Ω
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Send email
Thomas Hobbes
Trick Member
Trick Member


Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Location: San Francisco // NorCal
38. PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I recall correctly, the screenshots looked like MSPaint. E10.gif
_________________
"I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark."

| Pics | Play-Asia |
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Send email Visit posters website AOL Instant Messenger
Cutriss
Staff Member
Staff Member


Joined: 24 Jan 2002
39. PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two discussions are better than one.

Wait a sec - no they aren't.

Headlined

Stupid hurricane keeping me up until 4:30 AM...
_________________

Sentient Mode is capable...
Back to top
View users profile Send private message Visit posters website AOL Instant Messenger Xbox Live Gamertag
Display posts from previous:   
This topic is locked you cannot edit posts or make replies    DDR Freak Forum Index -> In the Groove All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group